Clan Ranks

[quorthon]

As I understand it, we have 5 ranks in our clan and we can name those ranks ourselves. The default names were: Initiate, Member, Veteran, Officer, Leader.

You have to be rank 3 to add guildmembers, rank 4 to remove them and only leader can promote/demote people.

We should obviously name our ranks that fits orcs a bit better, but what? The best our tired heads could come up with last night was something like:

Peon, Grunt, Raider, Spirit Guide, Clan Chief

With names like that you'd almost have to be shaman to be rank 4, but I don't see a problem with that. Shamans should have a lot to say in the clan.

If you have a better suggestion, please post it here.

[WaThumb]

Lok tar,


The Interface allows the creation of more ranks if wanted, but I doubt that this is necessary.
The "rights" like recruiting, promoting and demoting and others can be set individualy for each rank. So I could allow a Peon to recruit.

So first we need the names for the ranks. And than we have to decide how to fill them with our current memebers.

Peon -
Yes, lowest. Every new one should enter here.
The rules for promotion to the next rank should be bound to a level (10?) to make sure he know how to find his butt in the game or playtime with us. Maybe a hunting trip or whatever.

? -
I would like to have a rank between Peon and Grunt. Because Grunt should be the rank of most our Members, so we will have some space for promotion.


Grunt -
Common member. Remember that we can set individual titels! So
Warrior Grunt
Hunter Grunt
Shaman Grunt
..
We need some better titels.


Officer,Spirit Guide, Nob -
this is the layer before the chief. They should be the recruiters.
Maybe we limit them to two or three.
One Shaman, One Warlock and One Warrior/Hunter/Rogue to keep the balance. They will be the heads of their class.

Bozz, Chief,...-
.
.
.


I find it difficult to seperate us with ranks at the start of the game, because we all started together, have the same experience and the same "rights" in the clan.
I also want to state that I do not stick to this Boss task. I have a life (work(lots of), partner..). So if anyone wants to manage this..


For promotion, we could define a quest the aspirant has to finish and think about a story around it. So if you find a good quest in your travels set it on the list.

Thats all for now.

Lazhag

[Tragash]

Please, please, for gods sake, let's keep it simple. Let us not fall for the good old "each member has it's individual title" mistake again!

Peon: New members to the clan. They shouldn't be allowed to recruit or anything, they still have to prove themselves worthy.

Grunt: All veteran members of the guild. Since we should try to be picky when recruiting new members, allowing grunts to recruit would mean that we already put alot of trust in them. I don't have a problem with this as long as it isn't too easy to become a Grunt.

Nob: All higher ups who form the war council. They are the judges if there are problems, they set up new rules or modify old ones. Both warrior classes and magic classes are within this council since spiritual guidance is good, but it isn't essencial.

Chief: The leader of the guild. Usually a mighty warrior, he's the figure head of the clan, a glorious example of all orcish virtues and a worthy challenger of Thrall.


Note: Under no circumstances should we add class or profession titles to our ranks. They are confusing and useless since outfit and behavior already show who we are and what we stand for.

Always stick to the KISS rule. Keep it simple, stupid. Guild titles are nothing, they should only clarify where each member stands at the moment. They are, if anything, experience-based, so old veteran roleplayers should be higher up and encourage roleplay among the young ones.

Also, if anyone wants to build a class specific structure within the clan, do so! I wouldn't mind a school of shamans or a coven of warlocks within the guild, on the contrary! Nevertheless these things should be based on friendships and common interests and not on guild titles. Therefor, a shaman nob and his followers could try to outmaneuver the warlock nob and his coven to change the general opinion within the war council about a certain topic. This is not a title related privilege though! Titles are not roleplay!

Besides, I wouldn't place Shamans higher than Warlocks. Part of our roleplay should be the struggle between good and evil, within the clan and even within every single orc's soul. But that's another story...

To, to sum it up, keep the rank structure simple and base the roleplay on acts within the game, not on titles.

[Branko]

>Besides, I wouldn't place Shamans higher than Warlocks. Part
>of our roleplay should be the struggle between good and evil,
>within the clan and even within every single orc's soul. But
>that's another story...

I agree… only that I don’t think the whole Shaman vs. Warlock think should be seen as good vs. evil, but rather as old traditions vs. new (and perhaps untrustworthy) power.

[WaThumb]

Har, like the philosophical discussin with the Kow yesterday about Warlocks and Daemons. :)

What do you think about the Ranks?

Peon-Grunt-Nob-Chief ? With Recruiting rights for Grunts? Maybe we go with this and keep us the option for more complicated structures when the guild grows. Maybe a better word for Nob (coming from Shadowclan and not realy fits here).

[Branko]

I was just going to ask about the word nob, where it comes from and what it means. To me it looks a bit too much like "noob" which is a word I'd rather not have among our ranks. What about "Lieutenant"? The burning blades obviously uses it so it can be found within the orcish vocabulary at least.

About recruiting rights I think it's best if only one or a few people have them, to keep things in control. Not that I mind if we recruit more good roleplayers, but I don't see any point in having the guild grow to a size where you can't keep track of who everyone is.

[WaThumb]

I am not sure about the origins of "Nob". My first guess would be "Snob".

Lieutenant? Are you serious? Cannot say that I like it.

As for recruiting, yeah right, we should limit the peolpe who are able to bring new flesh in to keep the overview.

[Martinus]

I like the Peon, Grunt, Nob and Chief division. Falls nicely with the rule that, I believe, many orcs hold close to their hearts: "Keep dat simpul, glob". ;)

[Martinus]

>I am not sure about the origins of "Nob". My first guess
>would be "Snob".
>
>Lieutenant? Are you serious? Cannot say that I like it.
>
>As for recruiting, yeah right, we should limit the peolpe who
>are able to bring new flesh in to keep the overview.

Nob I think comes from "noble" or "nobility" (at least in Discworld it does ;)).

Maybe "Elder"? War Council of Elders kinda fits the whole clannish scheme.

[WaThumb]

Elder! Great, could have been my idea.

Peon Grunt Elder Chief? Thats ok for the majority here?

[Tragash]

Elder is more of an Shadowclan word than Nob is. The term Nob was used on Europa in Ultima Online for veterans who've done alot for the guild. Why change it to the name of the Shadowclan founders?

If you have to replace Nob - meaning "noble, noble orc, nobility" - with another word, then take Boss instead. I still think that Nob is the best name a war council member could have though. Age shouldn't have anything to do with becoming a council member, but noble deeds should!

[Solmyr]

Boss sounds good IMO. More Orcish. Nob is too... British. :P

[quorthon]

I kind of agree. For a shaman, higher rank with higher age might make sense, but for a warrior it's about strength in combat, not age. So elder might not make perfect sense for a title. I have to say though, I don't like "Nob" at all.

[quorthon]

I kind of thought that titles in the game would be awarded to people based on the merit of the characters. Personally I wouldn't mind never going above title "Grunt" if my character was deemed too stupid to deserve a higher rank. Regardless of my experience as a roleplayer. I accept the role I play and take whatever comes of it, it's part of roleplaying, isn't it?

I think just about any of us could take care of the "guild tasks", so I don't see a problem with this, as long as we don't recruit and promote anyone who's completely clueless to what our guild is about. Which I'm sure we won't do anyway.

/Bagurz

[Baghtru]

Ranks ranks ranks...

Peons == crafters/workers
Grunts == warriors
Warchief == da boss

That is enough of ranks. Severed Heads worked best because we did not emphasize on ranks too much other than the n00bs were lil'wuns and then they became grunts.

The less hierarchy the better. Hierarchy should be informal and OOG everyone has the same say about everything.

That is just my .02

[WaThumb]

Ug Baghtru,

ofcourse you are right. I dont think that we will enforce hirarchy structures in our gameplay that much. The reason for the ranks is because the guild system is allowing to connect several admin rights to the ranks. So I can enable a rank to promote/demote or recruit or kick players. I dont want to enable this for all Grunts, so we will have one layer between Bozz and Grunt.

I also think that important decisions will be made by the group and we will not establish a structure like Shadowclan.

Peons are not only crafters workers. In wow everyone is a crafter beside his class. Its not like UO where you have to decide between clomping and crafting. So Peons will be our "Lilwuns".

I am allways open for suggestions to improve the guild. This guild is not allone my project or Tragash, it is our project (I just was the one buying the guild charter and writing lots of stupid things to get it organized and started).
So I hope everyone will participate.

Hope to meet you ingame.

Lazhag

[Baghtru]

You don't have to have a certain rank to do guild recruitment. Just let it be a select few guys who are trustworthy and online a lot. It is actually a pretty OOG task and does not have to be recognized by a rank in game.

The more I read about this game the more I wish to try it all out and of course if I do make a comeback, an orc warrior is what I'll be. Though I have less to little time to spare from family/work/house and in my time that is left I try to sleep. Though I might become more addicted to caffeine and ginseng for a while...

The part with everyone is a crafter is a lil' odd since strictly warcraftly speaking not everyone was.

I say the guild ought to be formed as coherent to the warcraft mythology as possible.

A little curiosa, most of you might not know but Severed Heads the name is actually a blunt rip-off from the fabulous game of Bloodbowl from games workshop. In the earlier editions of the game it was the name of an orc team that later took on the name of Da Deff Skwadd...


Lok-tar Ogar!!!!

I wonder if the orc has a deity in warcraft...they worship the spirits of their ancestors or something right? Just thought about the Blud fer da Bludgod! Off wid der hedz!!!

[WaThumb]

>You don't have to have a certain rank to do guild
>recruitment. Just let it be a select few guys who are
>trustworthy and online a lot. It is actually a pretty OOG task
>and does not have to be recognized by a rank in game.

The ranks system is part of the guild system, its not just a title above your head. I have a gui to control what rank is able to do what task.

>The part with everyone is a crafter is a lil' odd since
>strictly warcraftly speaking not everyone was.

It's implemented this way, blame Blizzard. ;)

>I say the guild ought to be formed as coherent to the warcraft
>mythology as possible.

You can point me to a good webpage about Warcraft lore? Would help me in the with setting up the webpage and the background for the clan. Currently we are not realy sure if we are followers of Thrall or some kinfd of competitors.

>A little curiosa, most of you might not know but Severed Heads
>the name is actually a blunt rip-off from the fabulous game of
>Bloodbowl from games workshop. In the earlier editions of the
>game it was the name of an orc team that later took on the
>name of Da Deff Skwadd...
>

Ah, history. Share all your informations with us. We selected the guildname because we (I?) have strong feelings/memories about it and it seems a lot of the old UO community has found its way into WoW (CF, Elv, Orc, even CoY).

>Lok-tar Ogar!!!!
>
>I wonder if the orc has a deity in warcraft...they worship the
>spirits of their ancestors or something right? Just thought
>about the Blud fer da Bludgod! Off wid der hedz!!!

Under development. We still have to find our way.

[Baghtru]

The history of warcraft is in excellent detail described on the www.worldofwarcraft.com website.

There are three novels as well that can be of interest, especially Lord of the clans which is about Thrall and his rebellion against the humans.

Too bad there are no PVP+/RP servers. Then I would have bought the game today!

[WaThumb]

What is the problem with PvP on RP server?
If we want to, we make a trip into Ally lands, flag ourself by attacking a NPC ... I think I read somewhere about a makro you can set which flags you for PvP all the time.

[Karma]

If that Alliance NPC scares you too much you might sacrifice yourself to elven arrows by simply using the command /pvp. I imagine the script doesn't do anything else than constantly repeating that.

[Trueshot]

>The part with everyone is a crafter is a lil' odd since
>strictly warcraftly speaking not everyone was.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Personally only have the RTS games as a reference and imho craft skills aren't there to keep the game user-friendly. I agree with a bit of coherency, but it will probably turn out okay due to players playing with their background in mind. I doubt there are warrior enchanters or shaman blacksmiths.

Not sure everyone will turn out with a dedicated craft skill anyway. Afaik you need lots of uncommon/rare resources to advance in the real craft skills (blacksmith, enchanting, etc.) and Blizzard expects people to work together to gather those. I'm just gathering metal for the clan, which requires ability to fight as higher quality metals are in remote and dangerous areas.

Btw. Skills like first aid are in theory also profession skills, but are more support skills. If there's no shaman to back you up with some mojo then a few bandages/anti-venom/potions helps, but it sure is better to have a few shamans in the clan :)